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acow
http://www.thephatphree.com/features.asp?S...ryID=2187&Layou;

Posted: 2/27/2006 by: Mike Polk

Hey, you, Some Guy. Itís me, Some Girl. I guess we might as well have a life together. Weíre on a schedule here. Iím in my mid to late twenties; youíre two years older than me. Weíre at about the same level of attractiveness. We have comparable educations. I need to mate, and youíll probably do as well as anyone else. Letís begin this typical courtship process, shall we?

You want sex? Fine. Roll around on me for a while. Whatever gets this moving. Are you done? Good. Now go tell your friends about it. And have a good time, you wonít be seeing much of them any more.

I guess we should go to some movies and maybe a concert or two. That was nice. Now letís get in a fight and then make up. Good. Now letís go camping. While camping, letís take some pictures of us camping that we can hang up in our cubicles to remind us of the time we went camping. That will be a cherished memory.

Okay, I guess itís time to move into an apartment together thatís about ten miles away from my parentsí house. Letís live in this apartment for a year. Letís go to a Memorial Day barbecue at my parentsí house. Good. Okay, time to get married.

When you propose, donít try to do anything cute like putting the ring in my wine glass or having a sports mascot bring it to me at a ball game. Itís all been done before, and you are not a very creative person. It would probably just come off as cheesy and forced. Just get down on a knee and get it over with. New Yearís Eve works fine for me.

Our wedding will take place a year-and-a-half from your proposal. It doesnít really take that long to set up a wedding; I just want to relish the fact that we are getting married for as long as I possibly can. During that time, I will be the center of attention. Sadly, this will be the highlight of my life. I have no aspirations to write a great book that will change the way people think, I donít want to travel the world and witness the majesty and diversity of foreign lands, I donít want to dedicate my life to intellectual or philosophical pursuits in an attempt to take my mind places that no one has ever gone- I just want to look skinnier in my dress than my bridesmaids. Okay, thatís done.

After the wedding, I will take a year to reflect upon the wedding. I will send thank-you notes, watch the wedding video countless times with whomever will sit through it with me, and show people pictures from the wedding that they have no interest in seeing.

Soon, everyone will tire of my wedding talk and I will no longer be the center of attention. It is time for us to buy a house, so that I have something else to talk about. It will be a three-bedroom ranch home with a semifinished basement.

You will turn the basement into a rec room with a bar. This will be pointless, as you will rarely see your friends any more, and when you do, they will have neither the desire nor the time to go down and drink in our basement because theyíll have mated too. Your masculine rec room will soon be cluttered with children's toys and my infrequently-used exercise equipment.

When people stop talking to me about our house, I will decide that we should have kids. I will take the fun out of sex by incorporating science and scheduling our intimacy around my ovulation cycle. We will conceive.

We'll Go Bowling Sometimes
When I am pregnant, I will have something to talk to people about again, and everyone will pay attention to me. I will act as if I am the first pregnant person ever. Eventually, I will give birth, just as billions have done before me.

Our children will be adequate, but not spectacular. You will want them to be athletes, but they will lack the size and skill. I will want them to be creative but they will lack the talent and drive. Despite this, they will eventually mate, too.

We will move into a larger house to accommodate our growing family. You will build a deck off the back of the house that we will use twice a summer. We will briefly contemplate an above-ground pool but in the end will decide against it, citing cost and practicality.

There will be several dogs.

We will vacation. Myrtle Beach will be our destination of choice, though we will be no strangers to Orlando.

Our kids will leave and we will move into a condo, citing cost and practicality. We will retire. Now the waiting truly begins.

Our children will provide us with unremarkable grandchildren. We will photograph them and discuss them at length.

You Will Mow Our Lawn
You will die of heart complications. Your funeral will be relatively well-attended and will last for just over an hour. Following it, some of us will go back to the condo where there will be a tray of cold cuts for sandwiches.

I will remain for eight more years, watching television and slipping away into dementia. I will die. Doctors will call it natural causes, but in reality, I will have semiconsciously willed myself to stop breathing out of boredom and defeat. It will be done.

You can pick me up at eight
gnuneo
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
gnuneo
hey acow - 90% of what you posted sounds like absolute heaven to me - i guess its what you make of it.
Stimulant
TITAYS TITAYS I LOVE TITAYS
Sephiroth
Sounds like the typical family. Quickly state the philosophical ramafacations of it so it won't get moved to AHB.
MindsWideOpen
QUOTE(acow @ Mar 9 2006, 01:02 AM)
Hey, you, Some Guy. Itís me, Some Girl. I guess we might as well have a life together. Weíre on a schedule here. Iím in my mid to late twenties; youíre two years older than me. Weíre at about the same level of attractiveness. We have comparable educations.

She forgot that he is taller.
Dragonspirit
When you don't have God in your life, perhaps life really looks this depressing. The person who wrote this is spiritually starving, seeming to glorify only single life and intellectualism and then still is (not so surprisingly) utterly miserable. Condemnation for everything normal and traditional isn't insightful, it's just pathetic.

I wake up everyday grateful to God for my boys and wife. Sometimes work sucks, sometimes it's ok. Sometimes other things are frustrating, and sometimes they are great. But it's all making me wiser, and any barriers I see don't bother me because I have other plans I'm always working towards. Everyone should approach life that way - you should never ever be content within your station. Sometimes it's frustrating, and there can be lulls, but it's a challenge and it's one I will win.

Buying a house is in the cards soon, and where the author finds cynicism I find excitement. Because that house will be a home to those I love.

And yes, one day I will grow sick and die many years from now God willing. But that isn't the end. That is when, should God deem me worthy, that things shall truly get interesting for me.

Live the life you want.
Dakyron
Lame article.

Citadel
Yeah...lame...just definately lame. Lacked substance. :rolls eyes:
Dakyron
QUOTE(Citadel @ Mar 9 2006, 01:38 PM)
Yeah...lame...just definately lame. Lacked substance.



I have a feeling you hear that alot...
Stimulant
serious now, this is the biggest bunch of emo bullshit i've read in a while.
Citadel
QUOTE(Dakyron @ Mar 9 2006, 04:11 PM)
I have a feeling you hear that alot...



Forben
didn't really notice any 'life' to the post. Just automation.
libvertaruan
QUOTE(Forben @ May 12 2006, 01:46 AM)
didn't really notice any 'life' to the post.  Just automation.


That was the point?
Molimo
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ Mar 9 2006, 11:53 AM)
When you don't have God in your life, perhaps life really looks this depressing.



Yeah, I know when I ask people what the most exciting part of their week is, they pretty much all answer church.
Dragonspirit
Who said anything about excitement? We are talking about fulfillment.

Cocacola & cheeseburger > Healthy Diet
Video games > School Work
Porno > Church
Gambling > Savings

When it comes to excitement. All of which are much less valuable for your long term growth and fulfillment.

You think this bitter woman is an avid churchgoer? I sincerely doubt it. Her philosophy on life is dull, sad and depressing. She sees death as the end of the misery of her common life. She sees all the great milestones in life as trite and redundant.

Anyone who shares her outlook on life is spiritually starving. She needs God in her life.
MindsWideOpen
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 12 2006, 08:22 PM)
You think this bitter woman is an avid churchgoer?  I sincerely doubt it.  Her philosophy on life is dull, sad and depressing.  She sees death as the end of the misery of her common life.  She sees all the great milestones in life as trite and redundant.

She's probably Catholic.
Dragonspirit
Why?
MindsWideOpen
Because it reminded me of Dogma and I wanted to waste some time while waiting for my oatmeal to get done.
Forben
whats your definition of fullfillment?
Dakyron
EDIT:
necrolyte
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ Mar 9 2006, 04:53 PM)
When you don't have God in your life, perhaps life really looks this depressing.  The person who wrote this is spiritually starving, seeming to glorify only single life and intellectualism and then still is (not so surprisingly) utterly miserable.  Condemnation for everything normal and traditional isn't insightful, it's just pathetic.

I wake up everyday grateful to God for my boys and wife.  Sometimes work sucks, sometimes it's ok.  Sometimes other things are frustrating, and sometimes they are great.  But it's all making me wiser, and any barriers I see don't bother me because I have other plans I'm always working towards.  Everyone should approach life that way - you should never ever be content within your station.  Sometimes it's frustrating, and there can be lulls, but it's a challenge and it's one I will win.

Buying a house is in the cards soon, and where the author finds cynicism I find excitement.  Because that house will be a home to those I love.

And yes, one day I will grow sick and die many years from now God willing.  But that isn't the end.  That is when, should God deem me worthy, that things shall truly get interesting for me.

Live the life you want.



You don't need god to feel fullfilled or spiritually alive. Their problem is not a lack of spirituality-religious people could feel like that too-its their selfishness and living a live defined exactly by social norms, not their own will. When they think about others, they think about how to get a sense of entertainment from them, not how they can help them. Life is a list of achievements judged by how they compare to what society expects, not judged by what gives them a fullfilled life.

What you need is a feeling of something greater. This can be God, in your case it is. And this sort of life creates an angst in people who feel unfullfilled by that life. It is, I believe, what leads to mass movements. So for some people that sense of fullfillment can come from charity, protesting war, religion of all types, and unfortunately, movements like al-Quaeda and the Nazi party.

So in that regard, I agree with your comments about fullfillment. But not on religion. I could just as easily say she's not an avid Mosquegoer, or Taoist templegoer (you implied Christian faith is the best for this). She's also not an avid charity worker or social worker, she's also not driven by social justice.

Its also interesting how she's trying to feel important, yet she's trying to feel important by doing exactly what everyone else is doing. Its a contradiction-if your actions are redundant, and only benefit yourself and only interest you, you're not going to be important.
Dragonspirit
QUOTE
I could just as easily say she's not an avid Mosquegoer, or Taoist templegoer (you implied Christian faith is the best for this).


That's because it's an actual connection to the real God, not merely philosophy or ritual like the others you mention.
necrolyte
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 16 2006, 07:29 PM)
That's because it's an actual connection to the real God, not merely philosophy or ritual like the others you mention.



Those people could just as easily say the same about you.

A Taoist would argue that their philosophy connects one to the ultimate truth/way.

A Muslim would claim that its the same God, they just understand that God better than you do.

A Bhuddist would claim that acheiving personal Nirvana is an actual connection to the universe, not a life run by misery and fear.

Taoism, Islam, Bhuddism, Judaism, and all other world religions are more than ritual and philosophy. They are religion. The closest thing to mere philosophy and ritual masquerading as religion is Confucaism, but Confucaists frequently combine pagan Chinese beliefs to Confucaism to form a real religion. Even if you feel that your God and bible is literal truth, they clearly feel equal fullfillment as you do. So how can you say then that they are merely unfullfilling philosophy and ritual? What argument do you have for that?
Dragonspirit
They could all claim that, but they would still be wrong.

I know you don't like hearing it, but God is an objective truth. There is one God, only one God, and He is reality. The other belief systems might have redeeming qualities, but they are not actually based on that objective fact.

In the sense they feel they are serving a higher purpose, they have an edge on the woman in the thread starter. But they do not reach that same level, because ultimately the truth makes the difference.
necrolyte
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 16 2006, 08:32 PM)
They could all claim that, but they would still be wrong.

I know you don't like hearing it, but God is an objective truth.  There is one God, only one God, and He is reality.  The other belief systems might have redeeming qualities, but they are not actually based on that objective fact.

In the sense they feel they are serving a higher purpose, they have an edge on the woman in the thread starter.  But they do not reach that same level, because ultimately the truth makes the difference.



Its an objective truth? That the Bible is exactly fact? Actually the objective truth is that the Earth is 5 billion years old and that there is little more than conjecture when it comes to religion.

And last time I checked, Islam and Judaism believed in the same one God as you do biggrin.gif .

Now how do you KNOW that your sense of fullfillment is superior? You're assuming.
Dakyron
QUOTE(necrolyte @ May 16 2006, 01:35 PM)
Its an objective truth? That the Bible is exactly fact? Actually the objective truth is that the Earth is 5 billion years old and that there is little more than conjecture when it comes to religion.

And last time I checked, Islam and Judaism believed in the same one God as you do  biggrin.gif .

Now how do you KNOW that your sense of fullfillment is superior? You're assuming.



I know it is.
Telum
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 16 2006, 04:32 PM)
They could all claim that, but they would still be wrong.

I know you don't like hearing it, but God is an objective truth.  There is one God, only one God, and He is reality.  The other belief systems might have redeeming qualities, but they are not actually based on that objective fact.

In the sense they feel they are serving a higher purpose, they have an edge on the woman in the thread starter.  But they do not reach that same level, because ultimately the truth makes the difference.



DS, dont be an idiot.
Dragonspirit
QUOTE
Actually the objective truth is that the Earth is 5 billion years old and that there is little more than conjecture when it comes to religion.


When God created life, do you really think a day to God was the same as a day to man?

QUOTE
Its an objective truth? That the Bible is exactly fact?


Of course.

QUOTE
Now how do you KNOW that your sense of fullfillment is superior? You're assuming.


It can't really be explained to the non-faithful. It's something I wish you luck on seeking. You won't find it with voodoo, or Islam, or new age, or scientology. You will only find it with belief in the one true God, because that is where the truth rests.
Telum
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 16 2006, 05:28 PM)
When God created life, do you really think a day to God was the same as a day to man?
Of course.
It can't really be explained to the non-faithful.  It's something I wish you luck on seeking.  You won't find it with voodoo, or Islam, or new age, or scientology.  You will only find it with belief in the one true God, because that is where the truth rests.



And Allah is that one true God. You believe in the same god, but you havent seen the light of his last and final prophet.
Dragonspirit
Just because multiple people claim something, doesn't make them all equally right nor is it a moderate position to treat them as such.

Like I said, you're welcome to believe whatever you want, but until you find the truth you're living a lie.
necrolyte
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 17 2006, 04:52 AM)
Just because multiple people claim something, doesn't make them all equally right nor is it a moderate position to treat them as such.

Like I said, you're welcome to believe whatever you want, but until you find the truth you're living a lie.



If Islam and Judaism are false, which branch of Christianity is correct? One that believes in the Trinity? Or is the trinity a fabrication? Does recognizing the Trinity then make you more able to see this or less? And what about people who think Christ was born in May, not December, because the shepherds were tending to their flocks? What about people who think Christ was only a prophet and not the literal son of God? What about people who think the Earth is 6,000 years old, and people who think its 5 billion, with the universe being 20 billion? What about people who think the Great Flood was an impossibility? Or that the existence of Moses is doubtful, if not an outright fabrication? What about people who think homosexuality is fine in God's eyes or wrong in God's eyes? There are too many little differences within your faith to say that your faith is objective truth.

The interesting thing is that from a theological standpoint, Christ puts as much emphasis on care for the poor and needy, and non-contradiction in one's life as he does faith in God. He is also a Jew. Christianity puts a lot of faith into the Old Testament, and "Israel" means to "Struggle with God", so if the Bible is truth does that not mean that to not struggle with the existence of God means that the sense of fullfillment you have is a false one? Nowhere does Christianity, to my knowledge, call for the kind of blind faith that you possess. And heaven is a sham if you get in by blind faith.

Now how do you explain people who may have felt God, but reject Christianity for other faiths for some personal event in their lives? It goes the other way too, just showing how faith is a personal thing, and is not influenced directly by the supernatural. That does not mean that there is not a God, it just means that the feeling of true connection to "God" or the "Truth" does not discriminate.

Your ultimate assumption is that the happiness you feel is superior. You don't know that by knowing them, you think that because your faith seems powerful, but ultimately you don't know if their fullfillment is equivalent to your own or not, you can only bet that its not.
Dragonspirit
I never claimed to be able to prove it, only to know it. I know you see a great sensitivity for other beliefs, but if a belief is predicated on a false presumption, is it really respectful not to speak the truth? Do you really help your fellow man by letting him walk over the proverbial cliff without a heads up, because he thinks walking off the cliff is the right way to go because it is a tradition for those close to him to walk off said cliff?

As to the various churches, my opinion on that is the individual church is far less important than the purpose. Satan can not obstruct the truth from you, but he CAN mislead you. You can't be misled if you choose to follow God (and only God) first and foremost, and His will as expressed in the Bible.

The Bible is not meant to fully and wholly be an instructural document. And I think that is where many people go wrong. It possesses instructures, specifically in the Commandments, but it also gives you historical insight and a glipse (as best as we mere mortals can comprehend) into the mindset of God as well.

Far too much importance is placed by some (yourself included) on the age of the earth, or whether you can eat shellfish, or baptism, and misses the forest for the trees. You need to get back and focus on what is actually important. Doing God's will.
Telum
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 17 2006, 01:49 PM)
I never claimed to be able to prove it, only to know it.  I know you see a great sensitivity for other beliefs, but if a belief is predicated on a false presumption, is it really respectful not to speak the truth?  Do you really help your fellow man by letting him walk over the proverbial cliff without a heads up, because he thinks walking off the cliff is the right way to go because it is a tradition for those close to him to walk off said cliff?

As to the various churches, my opinion on that is the individual church is far less important than the purpose.  Satan can not obstruct the truth from you, but he CAN mislead you.  You can't be misled if you choose to follow God (and only God) first and foremost, and His will as expressed in the Bible.

The Bible is not meant to fully and wholly be an instructural document.  And I think that is where many people go wrong.  It possesses instructures, specifically in the Commandments, but it also gives you historical insight and a glipse (as best as we mere mortals can comprehend) into the mindset of God as well.

Far too much importance is placed by some (yourself included) on the age of the earth, or whether you can eat shellfish, or baptism, and misses the forest for the trees.  You need to get back and focus on what is actually important.  Doing God's will.



You dont worship god though. You are a polytheist.
Dragonspirit
It's God, not god, and I worship Him and only Him.
miltonfriedman
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 16 2006, 03:32 PM)
I never claimed to be able to prove it, only to know it.


wait, wait...
you cannot prove an "objective" concept like the existence of one true God? That's really a new spin on the term "objective", wouldnt you say?

QUOTE
Satan can not obstruct the truth from you, but he CAN mislead you. You can't be misled if you choose to follow God (and only God) first and foremost, and His will as expressed in the Bible.


when you hit strip clubs and gambe in Vegas, would you say Satan was misleading you, or you are not really following God's teaching? I am very interested in how you deal with such "deep" religiousity.
necrolyte
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 17 2006, 05:49 PM)
I never claimed to be able to prove it, only to know it.  I know you see a great sensitivity for other beliefs, but if a belief is predicated on a false presumption, is it really respectful not to speak the truth?  Do you really help your fellow man by letting him walk over the proverbial cliff without a heads up, because he thinks walking off the cliff is the right way to go because it is a tradition for those close to him to walk off said cliff?

As to the various churches, my opinion on that is the individual church is far less important than the purpose.  Satan can not obstruct the truth from you, but he CAN mislead you.  You can't be misled if you choose to follow God (and only God) first and foremost, and His will as expressed in the Bible.

The Bible is not meant to fully and wholly be an instructural document.  And I think that is where many people go wrong.  It possesses instructures, specifically in the Commandments, but it also gives you historical insight and a glipse (as best as we mere mortals can comprehend) into the mindset of God as well.

Far too much importance is placed by some (yourself included) on the age of the earth, or whether you can eat shellfish, or baptism, and misses the forest for the trees.  You need to get back and focus on what is actually important.  Doing God's will.



How do you know that your faith is not mere misleading by Satan? And how can you be sure that Islam and Judaism are? And Bhuddism?

And what about nominally Christian faiths, such as Rastafarianism, which is Christian, but only in the broadest sense. They follow the Bible, but have certain other beliefs involving African origin and African nationalism. What about Syncretic Pagan Christians (especially in Native America, Haitian Voodoo, and African communities) who believe in the Bible on one hand, but believe in a certain group of other beleifs as well? What about Mormonism? If those faiths don't count, why does Catholicism? Why does Orthodoxy? I'm assuming you think they are all Christian, and recognize all as Christian, because they follow God's will in the way you describe.

And do you worship God or do you worship the Trinity? Does the Bible specifically state the nature of the Trinity?

How do you justify meaning changes over time due to translation error?

How do you justify repeated re-editing due to reported "Apocraphyl texts"?

If you do not think Voodoo-Catholicism of the form practiced by many Haitians is true Christianity, how can a Christian that worships Christmas be Christian? Or a Christian that believes in ghosts? You have repeatedly described Voodoo as an anathema to Christian thought, however its very clearly Syncretised with Catholicism in Haiti.

Do you believe that a Christian that literally reads the Bible and ignores the points of the love of God-Pat Robertson for example-is a true Christian? He is not looking for the finer points of the Bible, but literally believes the earth was made in 4004 BC, that God literally hates homosexuals, that God metes out divine punishment?
Dragonspirit
MF:

QUOTE
you cannot prove an "objective" concept like the existence of one true God?


Nope. Maybe others could, but I can't. There are many objective truths I can not prove. I can't prove gravity or the earth to be round. I can't prove that a man walked the moon or that the sun is hot either.

QUOTE
when you hit strip clubs and gambe in Vegas, would you say Satan was misleading you, or you are not really following God's teaching? I am very interested in how you deal with such "deep" religiousity.


I've already explained this to you for about the thousandth time. It seems you don't want to actually listen and would rather just troll and carp.


Necro:

Sheesh man, I'd need an hour to address all of that. Let me hit some of the broader points.

* The trinity and God are three parts of the same whole. The are not seperate divinities.

* Actually, the translations have been authentic. Given that some get confused or disagree over certain texts, but again, I have a more broad view of the Bible. As pointed out, this frankly isn't that important. You read the book, and soon you will understand the penumbra of it. It's not a legal text. It's highest relevence and pertinence is to simply see God's will within it and do it. The commandments are very clear. The ritualism, splintering, etc are things done by man.

* You ask me essentially to judge other subsections, and I frankly am not qualified to do that. No one really is. If you notice, I've never once said nor will I say (should I have my wits) that person X is going to hell or heaven. I don't know, I couldn't even answer the question for myself. God, and only God, is fit to judge us and his judgement is absolute and perfect bound by no rule or expectation of man. To put it more clearly, I don't think any one church has the monopoly on God's will or correct interpretation of the Bible. It might be some little church in North Dakota for all anyone knows. But do not be confused that that ambiguity is permissiveness towards any behavior or any belief system either. It doesn't mean everything is ok or that other worship of gods is just as good. God requires faith. God requires obediance and absolute loyalty. And most of all, God requires repentance for our wrongdoings.

* What is put into the Bible was guided by God and decided by men with far more knowledge than you or I. If you are referring to the so-called 'Book of Judas', it has long been proven to have been a fake. What more, common sense dictates that a man who hangs himself hardly has time to write a book within the three days inbetween Christ's death and resurrection.

* On ghosts, I don't think many (if any) alleged sightings are anything more than superstition and myth. However, God doesn't necessarily tell us everything that has happened or how He operates. A lot of people expect God to explain everything to us. Who the hell are we to ask for it? God has told us what He wants, very clearly, and that's all we really need to know of His business. For what He has told us, that we can have eternal life should we demonstrate our worth, is a gift not any requirement on His part. He would be more than justified to have never told us.

* Does God meet out divine punishment? Absolutely, but not always. On the issue of individuals and controversial things they have said, I can't sit in judgment of them. But to the broader question of what I think is right? I don't think we ever put ourselves in the seat of judge when it comes to these matters. Unless God has give you prophetic duty or insight, to assume just seems arrogant.


It looks like my short post grew a little more than I anticipated. biggrin.gif
miltonfriedman
QUOTE
Nope. Maybe others could, but I can't. There are many objective truths I can not prove. I can't prove gravity or the earth to be round. I can't prove that a man walked the moon or that the sun is hot either.


there is no extant evidence on gravity and round-earth? this is a starkling revelation.

QUOTE
I've already explained this to you for about the thousandth time. It seems you don't want to actually listen and would rather just troll and carp.


actually, your only explanation was that it's "a good way for christians to relax." i merely wonder how you go about in resolving this relaxation technique whenever you opened a bible. Do you think strip joints are okay for someone who gets fulfillment of life from knowing God while getting a few lap dances and gambling online periodically?

there is no need to evade. we are simply interested in your thought process regarding to the conflict between bible and lap dances that you so frequently enjoy.
Dragonspirit
QUOTE
there is no extant evidence on gravity and round-earth?


I said *I* could not prove it. I merely believe all those things to be true.

QUOTE
Do you think strip joints are okay for someone who gets fulfillment of life from knowing God while getting a few lap dances and gambling online periodically?


Do you think only athiests go to Vegas?

By the way, what's with this "we" junk. Is this a royal we? Are you a princess?
miltonfriedman
QUOTE
I said *I* could not prove it. I merely believe all those things to be true.


you could not find evidence to prove that the earth is round? again, absolutely mind-boggling. and b/c you are unable to find any literature/theorem/experiment to prove that the earth is found, it is equivalent of the existence of one true God?

amazing.

QUOTE
Do you think only athiests go to Vegas?


why the evasion, DS? i asked you several simple questions. 1. do you feel lap dances are necessary to someone who has God for fulfillment; 2. do you feel that those who follow the Bible should get lap dances; and 3. how do you reconcile?

QUOTE
By the way, what's with this "we" junk. Is this a royal we? Are you a princess?


me and a couple of others, upon hearing about your belief that lap dance is "a good way for christians to relax" to be uprorariously funny and would like to hear more about it.
necrolyte
DS-is his divine punishment on earth or after life? How can an ethical being punish Fred for something he caused the situation for? Free will aside, God already knew how their free will would go? If God is the ultimate arbiter, how do you know that he does not let all souls find their way to him?

The way I see it, its illogical to think that God would directly intervene on earth after its creation to "Fix" something, because that would imply that there was something that would have to be "Fixed", which would imply that he was not all knowing. Being omnipotent, he would have inspired all faiths simply by his creation of the universe as it was.

So you think Rastafarianism could be a form of Christianity as valid as Catholicism? If you think so, or if you think you're in no place to judge Rastafarianism, you're a better Christian than most I know, who think a religion devoted fairly closely to Christ (despite some homophobia and ethnocentrism) might be more than an excuse for Jamaicans to get stoned.

If God is the only thing that knows the ultimate truth and who to let into heaven, how can you be sure that he did not also inspire Islam, Bhuddism, Judaism, and even atheism or agnosticism? Whose to say that he did not create those faiths for the specific purpose of guiding that individual to the light, with full knowledge that all individuals are different and that Christianity may simply be inadequate for some?

Apocraphyl texts exist other than the Gospel Of Judas. Many are old testament texts, with all sorts of oddities that make the Bible sound a bit closer to the other religious thoughts of the Semetics.
Dragonspirit
QUOTE
you could not find evidence to prove that the earth is round?


I might be able to, I dunno. Haven't tried. But I probably couldn't prove it. Doubtful most people could.

QUOTE
why the evasion, DS?


Already answered, and this will be my last reply to you in this thread.

QUOTE
me and a couple of others


Princess, I've already answered. Btw, putting quotes around your lie is not going to convince anyone but the extremely gullible.
Dragonspirit
QUOTE
DS-is his divine punishment on earth or after life?


Both.

QUOTE
How can an ethical being punish Fred for something he caused the situation for?


Fred made Fred's choice, Fred is punished for Fred's choice. The situation is irrelevent, Fred made his decision within that situation. God's foreknowledge is also irrelevent. I know that Milton is going to troll some more like a retarded monkey in his next posts, that doesn't mean I shouldn't ban him when he does.

QUOTE
If God is the ultimate arbiter, how do you know that he does not let all souls find their way to him?


QUOTE
If God is the only thing that knows the ultimate truth and who to let into heaven, how can you be sure that he did not also inspire Islam, Bhuddism, Judaism, and even atheism or agnosticism?


God has already explained the means to get to Him, thus making it clear not everyone does. He has specifically told us at least one of the things that happens to those that don't that He deems unworthy. What God decides to do to anyone but myself is not my business, and of course I would hope He would reprieve all but the most vile people, but I would never dare second guess Him. Were He to pardon or condemn everyone, well, so be it. None of us have a right to heaven or to question God.

QUOTE
So you think Rastafarianism could be a form of Christianity as valid as Catholicism?


I honestly don't care much for denominations, and were I to offer my novice view I would say that Catholicism has little reason to "brag" as far as one goes. In fact, I find it focuses far too much on ritual & heirarchy and too little on the spirit of the Bible in general. So, yes, Rasta or whatever could be as valid depending on how true the individual decides to live to God's will.

QUOTE
Apocraphyl texts exist other than the Gospel Of Judas. Many are old testament texts, with all sorts of oddities that make the Bible sound a bit closer to the other religious thoughts of the Semetics.


Name one you'd like to discuss and we can. There are reasons why they would be excluded from the Bible. I just used the most famous example I could think of to discuss.
necrolyte
Dunno where I'd want to start biggrin.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Old_...ament_Apocrypha

Now the point is that despite Fred's free will, God created it already knowing the outcome his free will would come up with, and how he could change the circumstance so that Fred finds his way. So he is directly responsible for fred's decision. You do not create Milton Friedman, you are not responsible for his behavior. However, if he flames someone, and you do not ban him or delete his post, and he flames again, you are responsible.

Now you say as long as someone gets the general idea of the Bible, they get to heaven. But the Bible preaches fraternal love and tolerance, and God's willingness to forgive all and guide all. Both would exclude divine punishment, and would also exclude him judging a faith on whether or not it recognizes him, but only on whether or not it makes them love and seek to serve humanity.
miltonfriedman
QUOTE(Nashismydaddy @ May 17 2006, 10:06 PM)
I might be able to, I dunno.† Haven't tried.† But I probably couldn't prove it.† Doubtful most people could.


shocking. with modern internet that is distributing information at a rapid rate, most people in this world would have trouble finding evidence to show that the earth is found. absolutely shocking.

QUOTE
Already answered, and this will be my last reply to you in this thread.
Princess, I've already answered.† Btw, putting quotes around your lie is not going to convince anyone but the extremely gullible.


i can see you that you have backtracked.
was the reply "do you think only the atheists go the Vegas" supposed to be a "response"? actually, on the previous occasion, the same evasion was found. it appears that you have trouble reconciling and prefer to run away when your spirituality is being probed. why is that? i am only here to try to understand what thought processes are going through your mind when you type about how you get fulfillment from knowning God personally while hitting the strip joints on numerous occassions. When this question surfaced last time, there was only evasion. i hope you will not show the same cowardice about your spirituality and religiousity at the face of questioining.

as most of us already know, trying not to defend your religious belief is also considered a sin in the Bible. I hope on top of your gambling and lap dances, you could seriously defend, answer, and elucidate on your idea about how a Christian who knows God personally can "relax" with some strippers.

no need to run. state your belief once and for all. you are all open and no secrets, right? it appears that you are more persistent at FW than defending your taste for gambling and lap dances while telling how you personally are touched by God and his words. your conviction at bad flames runs more deeply than defending Christianity? why?
Dragonspirit
QUOTE
Now the point is that despite Fred's free will, God created it already knowing the outcome his free will would come up with, and how he could change the circumstance so that Fred finds his way. So he is directly responsible for fred's decision


Doesn't matter. Fred made his choice, it wasn't predetermined. Also, God has omnipotent ability. It doesn't mean He does everything He could. Your premise is very legalistic rather than pragmatic. If God doesn't choose to see the future, does free will suddenly imply responsibility?

QUOTE
Now you say as long as someone gets the general idea of the Bible, they get to heaven. But the Bible preaches fraternal love and tolerance, and God's willingness to forgive all and guide all. Both would exclude divine punishment, and would also exclude him judging a faith on whether or not it recognizes him, but only on whether or not it makes them love and seek to serve humanity.


The problem is you are reaching the wrong conclusion off of your presumptions.

God is not willing to forgive all. He is willing to forgive under the right circumstances. Those include repentance and recognition. What's more, until you have been forgiven, you are guilty. And as long as you are guilty, God will punish you if He deems fit. And God has made it perfectly clear that He is not going to tolerate other religions as acceptable. "You shall have no other God" is quite clear.
necrolyte
So is "You shall not eat shellfish". And why would that exclude Judaism and Islam, which worship that god?

The way I see it, the bible could at best be only influenced by the will of God, that some pragmatic human considerations were thrown in. Like "Do not eat Pork". And the Jews, to preserve their culture, said "Thou shalt not worship another God". This makes sense, as Judaism at the time was threatened by the Polytheism of the other Canaanites. The greater message is of fraternal love, and that God loves all of his creations.

The thing is that God, being all-knowing, knows everything. He can't chose not to know something.

And about free will, the possibility of an all-knowing all-powerful creator god excludes the possibility of total free will, that all decisions we make were made by him at the point of creation.
Telum
QUOTE(necrolyte @ May 18 2006, 12:26 AM)
The way I see it, the bible could at best be only influenced by the will of God, that some pragmatic human considerations were thrown in. Like "Do not eat Pork". And the Jews, to preserve their culture, said "Thou shalt not worship another God". This makes sense, as Judaism at the time was threatened by the Polytheism of the other Canaanites.



Not quite. Jews at that time acknowledged the existance of other gods, but believed their god was the best.

DS- The bible says God forgives everyone.
miltonfriedman
DS, I found your evasion regarding your religious lifestyle to be disappointing. for someone who proclaims to be "a complete openbook", this will certainly be a damning counter-evidence. some would say a religious person would not hesitate to put forth his religiousity for all to probe, but it appears that you have realized the hypocrisy with your decision. to sum up: very sad.
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