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" width="8" height="8"/> Requested Review, My reasonings
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guest_Dakyron_*
post Jun 17 2005, 05:32 PM
Post #1


Unregistered









I probably still will not come back, but after lurking and reading for a couple days I have decided to ask for a review of this situation from Sastan(I believe that is the right person). My message below:

"I would like to request that you review the recent actions of the moderating staff at Utopia-Politics.com. Specifically, mhallex and Adam.

I was recently handed a one month ban for comments I made in the thread 'more bitemes on the way', and several other people were issues lesser bans/warnings. I have received bans in the past, and warnings, and never begrudged anyone for doing so. In the past, all my warnings were indeed legitimate. However, it has always been apparent to me that Adam, and mhallex, inject their own personal and political bias onto the board in an attempt to discourage what they disgree with, while hypocrtically ignoring similar instances where the content is not something they disagree with. This is only now has reached a point where I felt the need to ask for a review of his actions.

In none of the posts I made did I flame, spam, or troll. Adam admits this and says the reason for my banning was 'moralising', which in this context is nothing more than objecting the actions of another poster on moral grounds. 'moralising' should not be a bannable offense, especially one that can grant a person a month long ban, four times longer than the normal time. This is especially apparent in that I was given only one warning, and that did not even appear on my warn log until after the month long ban was given to me. To be fair, Adam did specifically warn me. However, as far as moralising goes, everyone in the thread was moralising, the only difference is they said what the LBs were doing was right or ok, and I said it was not. There were other posts in that thread that were clearly imflammatory, including those by Oddfish, stimulant, and others... However, my posts were not obviously intended to spite or attack. They were my expression of my political, personal, and moral views on the matter. A matter I take very seriously, and do not joke about. Adam called me insensitive(along with many others), however, there was then a thread made in AFB filled with dead baby jokes. Seriously, and they call ME insensitive. I mean, its not like a thread like that, which Adam took no exception to, would offend someone opposed to abortion, especially considering the context. In fact, it was that thread which prompted this request for a review. That is a disgrace, and it shows Adam's bias and hypocrisy. Originally, I felt that while wrong, the fact that he stood up for his friend was somewhat admirable, but then I see that thread and I realize he is not admirable, he is simply continuing on his crusade to remake the board into one where only his personal views are allowed to be expressed.

Furthermore, after the banning there was many flames directed toward me that I object to, yet nothing was done to stop that. More hypocrisy, including mhallex flaming me after my ban. This is a running storyline with mhallex, though, as he has in the past issued warnings to me in the same thread he flamed me. He even has admitted as such. For example, post #33, bigboy: "And with this thread, Oddfish and Dak have gained my utmost contempt. Congrats, you have joined ranks that not even Kreel managed to do: I have placed both of you on my ignore list. I can't believe your shit was allowed to pollute this thread." More, Adam: "Dakyron, what they need is counseling, not moralist pratteling. Note that he said they talked about adoption." It was not anymore 'moralist prattleing' than what anyone else said. Just because my view was different doesnt mean it is somehow unimportant. It was something I felt they needed to hear. More unmoderated flaming in the same thread, QWOT: "(1) Put the worthless POS calling himself Dakyron on ignore (if you haven't already)." Obvious flame, no action taken. Here, Lady B is doing moralising of her own, inviting responses, IMO: "Indeed I am pro life...but in this case that extends to my daughter's life, my life, Jon's life, my family's life. As I recall, (for all you who will for obviouse reasons want to throw negative Bible refs at me,) Saul who is called Paul was a murderer, and so was Moses. I will go on to do good things despite my sin."

Finally, is this not a political board? Does posting on it, even when it is a personal situation, invite discussion on the matter? I would have to say it does. If they did not want to hear opposing views, they should post this information. They knew my views, they KNEW I would object, and had to know that I would try to talk them out of it. Adam's reasoning that because this ia a 'real' situation means that I cannot post my views is stupid, to say the least. Being a real situation, not discussing abstract ideas, means that it becomes more important to me, as their decision can affect a real person. Moralising is going to happen, if a friend, stranger, hated enemy, ANYONE told me the same information, I would respond the same way. This review is not about their moral fiber, however, it is about my right to express my view of the situation in a thread obviously asking for the opinions/comments of the general board. If they did not want to hear my opinion, they could have not posted anything. Adam should not be allowed to moderate this board in such a way as to steer it in the direction of his personal and politcal views.

It is for this reason I wish for you to review this situation. Adam, mhallex, I CC you as information and courtesy only. Do NOT PM a reply to this to me, unless you want to know what I really think. "

I also wish to tell the Lord B that when someone sends you a PM, you should not then post it for everyone to see. If I wanted everyone to read it, I would have posted it. I should expect nothing less from you I suppose, though, considering recent events.
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JLord
post Jun 17 2005, 06:06 PM
Post #2


I need a freakin life
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,291
Joined: 1-December 04
Member No.: 816



I hope it does get reviewed. I also hope the general rules of the forum (if there are any) regarding bans gets reviewed. I also hope whoever does the reviewing overturns the bans and directs mods to stop banning people so much. I have never been banned or warned, I'm only saying this because I think the board should tolerate all views, even when they're wrong, like Dakyron's, and even when they are wrong and expressed in a very distasteful way, like Dakyron did.

The point of this forum is debate. Insults, and tactless moralizing have to be tolerated to some degree. I've seen much worse than what Dak posted before without anyone getting banned. I think the situation got a little too emotional for some people to handle and poor decisions were made. If I were a mod I would never ban someone unless there was an overwhelming sense of agreement among posters that the person in question was wrecking the forum. I think bans should only be used in this type of case.

Anyways, good luck getting this decision reversed Dak.
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mhallex
post Jun 17 2005, 06:24 PM
Post #3


Is better at economics than 78% of economists
********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 7,960
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Member No.: 81



*notes dissent

*puts JLord on his enemies list


All joking aside I feel that the moderation staff as well as Adam have been rather tolerant of many things on this board. It is a shame Dakyron feels this way but as shown by the many posters who do not have a single warn or ban to their credit it does take a certain amount of effort to piss us all off.

To address JLord's objection a bit more specifically, the point of certain areas of this forum is discussion and debate. While insults and whatnot are not going to be tolerated to the same degree as in parts of the board that are less serious in focus, we must maintain some broader standards. I have no objection to Dakyron voicing his beliefs on abortion in a thread in Politics, Philosophy, Science or one of the many other appropriate boards.

However his post was not in such a discussion, rather it was in a thread dealing with something terribly tragic that had befallen another poster. His actions showed a remarkable lack of compassion, respect or basic human decency.

Furthermore when the mods make it clear that we will not be tolerating misbehavior one should have the sense to stop making trouble or be willing to face the consequences of their actions.

I am willing to tolerate people who have beliefs that I find offensive even if they express it in a way that may offend me-provided it is in the proper context.

Dakyron's behavior did not occur in the proper context.


I stand by the decision made in this instance by Adam and support his wholeheartedly. However should Sastan decide to overturn this call by the oversight, then I will respect that decision. If Sastan finds my actions regarding Dakyron to be sufficently objectionable that he is uncomfortable with me contiuning to moderate, then I will be more than happy to respect his feelings in that regard and resign.

This post has been edited by mhallex: Jun 17 2005, 06:26 PM
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JLord
post Jun 17 2005, 06:42 PM
Post #4


I need a freakin life
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QUOTE(mhallex @ Jun 17 2005, 12:24 PM)
To address JLord's objection a bit more specifically, the point of certain areas of this forum is discussion and debate.  While insults and whatnot are not going to be tolerated to the same degree as in parts of the board that are less serious in focus, we must maintain some broader standards.  I have no objection to Dakyron voicing his beliefs on abortion in a thread in Politics, Philosophy, Science or one of the many other appropriate boards.

...

Dakyron's behavior did not occur in the proper context.
*



That is all true. I think it is the job of the moderators to move something to the proper forum if it is not appropriate. If it is so bad that it is inappropriate for ANY forum, then you'd have to look into things further. I think we all agree that there was nothing wrong with what Dakyron posted other then it was in the wrong Forum. I believe I even suggested to Daky that he should have started up a new thread in another forum to address his issues. I was also very critical of Daky even before he posted the giant baby picture. The mods in my opinion should have moved Daky's posts to the proper forum.
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