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" width="8" height="8"/> Create a thinking machine, how to program it?
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necrolyte
post Sep 1 2004, 11:17 PM
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OK this is bordering in philosophy, so I might post something similair in the philosophy section, but this will deal more with the scientific side.

How would one program a computer to:
(1) be self-aware
(2) come to a "best possible" solution when no perfect solution is findable
(3) has a desire to learn
(4) can feel emotion
(5) sends its thoughts through logical loops which consider previous memories and thoughts
(6) can formulate opinions based on facts
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libvertaruan
post Sep 15 2004, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE(Sephiroth @ Sep 12 2004, 03:53 PM)
Maybe we can build on that.
*



No. That would be far more complicated.

http://www.paulgraham.com/progbot.html

It would be far easier and less complicated to use bottom-up programming and give it the ability to program itself, however that could be done. Do our experiences not program us/do we not use our experiences to program ourselves (unconsciously)?
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Deus Ex Machina
post Sep 18 2004, 04:55 AM
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QUOTE(zaragosa @ Sep 12 2004, 03:35 PM)
Well, humans use heuristics, too, we're just better at them. Computers get much of their playing strength from number crunching and encyclopaedic knowledge. For now, we haven't gotten computers to understand more abstract chess concepts like power bases and field stress...
*


I was under the impression that that's what heuristics were: the ideas of power bases et al (whatever the heck they are) compressed/simplified into a few (or a lot of) rules that work fairly well under most situations.
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zaragosa
post Sep 18 2004, 06:27 PM
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Yes, those are heuristics, and computers have a very hard time with them because it's very hard to formulate them analytically (often because we don't know what the 'simple rules' are).
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Forben
post Sep 22 2004, 11:09 AM
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couldn't we set up a genetic algorithm so that instead of having a base formula, you have a limitation to the max and min responses (forget the mathmatical theory that its called, but basically f= x whatever with limit of + or 1 7 or something like that), and technically have no formula to go from the question to the answer?

guess that a partial chaos theory type thing might achieve parts of the individuality.

computers started with an optional base 10 instead of a base 2 computation. The problem with the base 10 was that the old technology at the time was too hard to figure determine whether the electricity was not on or off. I think the standard 2 base would not allow for the 'black and white' issues that it would have to deal with.

society also dictates specific learned responses to certain stimuli...
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zaragosa
post Sep 22 2004, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE(Forben @ Sep 22 2004, 01:09 PM)
couldn't we set up a genetic algorithm so that instead of having a base formula, you have a limitation to the max and min responses (forget the mathmatical theory that its called, but basically f= x whatever with limit of + or 1 7 or something like that),  and technically have no formula to go from the question to the answer?

A sine wave or Walsh wave could do that, but what would you do with such a function?

QUOTE
guess that a partial chaos theory type thing might achieve parts of the individuality.

My guess, too. Lots of 'individuality' in computer simulated responses can be generated with a small ideosyncratic bias in a random pattern added to whatever you're doing.

QUOTE
society also dictates specific learned responses to certain stimuli...
*


Yup. and there's so much of that, in fact, that it's not feasible to hardcode a computer with that information, so any AI we build will likely have to be educated.
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gnuneo
post Jun 1 2006, 11:15 PM
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intelligence =/= consciousness

QUOTE
I must disagree. Intelligence cannot simply be the output. Otherwise, we could say that computers today are "intelligent". Same with calculators. We throw in some numbers, and they return answers. We could do the same with a mathematician working with pen and paper. Both will return an answer (Presumebaly correct), but its a far cry to say that calculators are intelligent.


but that is exactly what intelligence is - what they are not is *conscious*.

QUOTE(Llyw)
Why are they different? One is a model, one is an actual system. One is using a set of algorithms to anticipate and produce sounds in an attempt to mimic the game, the other actually involves a game being played.


QUOTE
Sure, computers today aren't intelligent by any practical definition of the word, but if intelligience is in more than the output, how would we tell today if a computer program, which seemed to display all the attributes of real intelligence (self awareness, capable of learning, <insert other criteria here>) in it's output, is really intelligent or not? Assuming we understood perfectly all that went on inside of it's `brain', we wouldn't be able to compare it to our own (or any model of how intelligence should work on the lower level).


problem of output v actual consciousness - we *cannot know* others actual consciousness, we can only assume that others *are* conscious. This is a meta problem of being, and not just restricted to AC study. However despite this necessary caveat, it also to some degree goes without saying that a program that merely responds 'correctly' v one that analyses with volition, is inferior with respects to AC.

QUOTE(zara)
The output rendered by computers today isn't yet the same as that from beings we would normally classify as 'intelligent'.


actually, yes they are - check out 'IQ tests' - on many basic supposedly IQ tests a computer will find the answer well before any human could (sudoku, logic problems etc).

QUOTE
what is knowledge?

what is meaning?




what is the difference between Data and Information.
Data is useless 1's and 0's - un ordered - perhaps in a stream - with patterns within but unresolved. - raw stuff.

Information is organised data. A network of facts.

Organisation adds meaning because organisation transforms raw 1's and 0's into something more: more than the sum of its parts.


indeed - it takes a consciousness to put meaning into data - current programs are merely data processing - they cannot put meaning (Quality? ;)) into items. Is that emotion?

QUOTE(zara)
Until otherwise demonstrated, I don't see why not. I'm working on it [consciousness]  ;)


please define "consciousness".

Oh, such joy :lol: :lol: :lol:

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